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it's used by even nsa. but oracle is an legal battle with google accusing the search giant of using its language without its permission. i sat down with ellison at its compound south of san francisco. we spoke about many things including founders larry page and sergey brin. >> you know larry and sergey you have trouble with? >> larry specifically. >> larry -- i think -- >> larry per se. >> larry per se >> why? >> because he makes the decisions over there. he runs that company. no one else runs that company. and they decided -- let me be very clear. when you write a program, you write it. you use the oracle oracle/java tools for everything. up press a button and say convert this to android format. we don't compete with google. we just took our stock. that's a completely separate issue. >> but think they're evil. >> i think what they did was absolutely --. >> and you blame larry page. >> so larry page is evil -- that makes larry page evil? >> no i know his slogan is don't be evil. i think he slipped up this one time. >> he's a good time except for this one time when h
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